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13X02



What the hell...I'm a Dean-leaning fan but I swear to god, all I wanted to do tonight was to punch Dean right in his face. I don't like feeling like that, I really don't. But he was insufferable and a dick! I'll rewatch with less rage and probably feel better, but he was so unlikable most of tonight that it bordered on character assassination. I actually liked most of the ep, as long as it wasn't a scene with Dean. Sam was *amazing*, and I really like this Jack kid--I hope they don't fuck him up.

I'm thrilled with Donatello, and I have my fingers crossed that they're not just going to use him up and spit him out. He has the potential to be *very* interesting.

Lucifer was horrible, kind of charming even though he was a horrible dick--I think Mark P knocked it out of the park tonight. And Michael...hey Sex. Um-um-um. Nice. ;D

I can't wait until everyone sees this ep, I want to know how wrong my reaction was, lol!!

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( 29 comments — Leave a comment )
digitalwave
Oct. 20th, 2017 05:11 am (UTC)
I think that Sam hit the nail on the head when he described how Dean was acting to Jack as a manifestation of his pain at all their losses. Doesn't make it right but I don't know that he's ever learned a healthy way to deal with any of it. And, boy, has he been cut to his soul.

I keep waiting for Sam to look at Dean and say about Jack, he's me, "Dean, he's me. He's just as terrified as I was staring at the dark stain in my soul. Somehow, we've got to save him..."
roxymissrose
Oct. 20th, 2017 05:22 am (UTC)
Yes, so true, but I just couldn't get past how mean he was. I get that he's mourning, and looking for something to pin that grief on. I get too, that he wasn't threatening Jack as such, I think he was also explaining why he was maintaining his distance. But, the mommy part of me has latched on to Jack and it's hard to se him look so lost. :)

I keep waiting for Sam to look at Dean and say about Jack, he's me, "Dean, he's me. He's just as terrified as I was staring at the dark stain in my soul. Somehow, we've got to save him..."

omgosh, RIGHT??? I was waiting for Dean to get that!!

These have been two really great shows--I'm pleased and have my fingers crossed it keeps going this well!
digitalwave
Oct. 20th, 2017 05:47 am (UTC)
Me too, sweetie, me too! :)
fanspired
Oct. 20th, 2017 01:56 pm (UTC)
Maybe he can see it only too well and he's also trying to talk Sam out of getting too attached because he's afraid of how hurt Sam will be if it all goes south.
dreamsofspike
Oct. 20th, 2017 05:51 am (UTC)
I completely feel you on this. I wanted to smack Dean upside the head SO MANY TIMES in this ep. And I thought for sure that Dean would at least admit there was a POSSIBILITY that he could be wrong after Jack saved their lives. But he didn't, and then he saw Jack cutting himself and stopped him and I thought, "Okay, maybe NOW..." Except no, Dean expressly TOLD Jack he believes he's irredeemable, and I just was so upset with him. :/

I noticed though that he DID stop Jack from hurting himself. It bothered him. He doesn't want it to bother him, but it DOES - and that's something.

I really wish Dean could see the parallels between Jack and the little brother he was once told he might have to kill - the "boy with the demon blood" who grew up to SAVE THE FRICKIN WORLD. COME ON, Dean, you are smarter than this. :/
roxymissrose
Oct. 20th, 2017 06:05 am (UTC)
I noticed though that he DID stop Jack from hurting himself. It bothered him. He doesn't want it to bother him, but it DOES - and that's something.

I'm hoping it does too! I've never called Dean an asshole before and he's pulled some stunts, but this was just so unremittingly Crummy!Dean and he's just not been this way for a while. Maybe I'm reading him wrong tonight, or have read him wrong before, but I wasn't pleased.

Yes, lord, how can he not see it? He has to be deliberately blocking the thought. Maybe he doesn't want to see it so that he *can* kill Jack if need be.
jj1564
Oct. 20th, 2017 12:12 pm (UTC)
Maybe he doesn't want to see it so that he *can* kill Jack if need be

You've hit the nail on the head here, I think Dean is distancing himself in case Jack does go dark, so that he's the one who kills him and not Sam.
fanspired
Oct. 20th, 2017 01:57 pm (UTC)
I think he can see it, and that's part of the problem. (See my comment above)
jj1564
Oct. 20th, 2017 12:14 pm (UTC)
I think Dean always reacts to grief by being angry and belligerent - look at how he closed himself off after John died in S1 and was crabby to Sam then Ellen, and how mean he was to Bobby when Sam died in S2. And more recently, how angry he was after Charlie was murdered, and how he told Sam to be angry when Ketch killed Ellen! So yes, he is being a bit of an asshole right now, but he's also more broken than he's been since Sam went to hell, and covers up his pain and despair with his anger.
roxymissrose
Oct. 20th, 2017 03:15 pm (UTC)
Dean definitely rolls his despiar over into anger, that's been his SOP since day one. It's just weird for him to be so totally flat while also being so angry. I might be letting my emotions rule how I'm seeing this situation though. Plus on refelection, I see he's also telling himseslf Mary died (because the alternitve is so horrible) and that's taking an enormous toll as well.
jj1564
Oct. 20th, 2017 04:52 pm (UTC)
It's just weird for him to be so totally flat while also being so angry.

Perhaps it's because he's reining in his feelings so much. As Sam said, losing Cas and Mary in one hit is a lot to process - plus Crowley and Kelly. I really like Jack and hate that Dean is being so cold towards him - Jack sitting all dejected on the crate broke my heart - but I can understand why.
roxymissrose
Oct. 20th, 2017 06:00 pm (UTC)
I need to rewatch, but if I'm recalling this correctly, Sam did a wonderfully insightful job of explaining Dean's behavior. No one understands him like Sam. It's a nice way to show how much their characters have evolved.
jj1564
Oct. 21st, 2017 11:47 am (UTC)
Yes, Sam's "...the wires in Dean's head get crossed sometimes" was insightful. Not only does Dean feel the need to protect Jack and protect people from Jack, but he feels he needs to protect Sam from the pain of having to kill Jack, so Dean's preparing to be the one to do that if the time comes. And I really hope it doesn't!
fanspired
Oct. 20th, 2017 12:40 pm (UTC)
Have you seen JJ's drabble yet? I think she really nails it.

https://jj1564.livejournal.com/744063.html#t8548223
roxymissrose
Oct. 20th, 2017 03:11 pm (UTC)
I did read it and read JJ's drabble and it really supports that idea, especially where Jack reminds him a bit of Cas, and I think that's definitely part of what's driving Dean's intense reaction.
amypond45
Oct. 20th, 2017 03:50 pm (UTC)
I so much agree with you about Dean. He made me furious and I wanted to shake him! But obviously Sam understands what he's going through, so I should make the effort, too. I really loved Sam's and Jack's scenes together, loved Sam explaining Dean to Jack, loved the funny little moments in the Hotel: Jack walking into that crap room and exclaiming, "This is nice!" Then a little momentary bonding with Dean over Scooby-Doo, which Dean put the kabosh on like whoa. Jack copying Dean's every move with Sam looking on fondly (hopefully?) was also cute as hell. I just wish Dean didn't have to be such a stubborn jerk and show a little of his well-established sympathy for lost, grief-stricken kids. It's not THAT hard to see Jack in that light, is it?

On the other hand, maybe he secretly does feel for Jack (that last scene where Jack's self-harming and Dean steps in -- I mean, if he really thinks of Jack as an "it" why does it matter?)
roxymissrose
Oct. 20th, 2017 06:11 pm (UTC)
When he walked into that room and said it was nice, my little Grinch-like heart nearly exploded. How could you not be affected by such total innocence.

Yeah, I definitely feel that Dean is working hard not to empathize with Jack at all. My first reaction was "You DICK!" out loud. The poor dog, I startled the heck out of him. :D

This kid though...I should probably guard my heart too, because I doubt that this is going to end well. And if it doesn't, that's a blow to Sam because he wants to save Jack so much.
fireheart13
Oct. 20th, 2017 05:57 pm (UTC)
To me, Dean is still just so angry and hurt that he almost can't function. I thought at the end we saw a glimmer of hope though. I love Jack, far more than I expected to! ANd I totes agree that Mark P was great!!
roxymissrose
Oct. 20th, 2017 06:05 pm (UTC)
I really didn't expect to like him at all! But the character calls back to clueless Cas, and I have to admit that was always my fav flavor of Cas. Plus, there are so many echoes of young Sam and his constant worry that he might go evil one day, and that makes me sympathetic to him, too.

Agree with you about Dean. It was just so weird to see him so upfront about his firm belief the kid was evil. But, thinking about it now, it might not even be a bad thing. He was being totally honest with Sam, at least, and that's good.
digitalwave
Oct. 20th, 2017 09:08 pm (UTC)
You know, I had a thought regarding Jack and how powerful they say he is. There's a job opening in Heaven right now, a job that I think Chuck would pretty gladly pass along to his 'grandson'. Wouldn't it be cool if, instead of going the you can't avoid being evil route they ended up going in the exact opposite direction? I know it's probably wishful thinking since I like Jack so much but still... :)
roxymissrose
Oct. 20th, 2017 10:21 pm (UTC)
Oh wow...that's a hell of an idea, lol...it would explain why Chuck figured the world was safe leaving it in the Winchester's hands, which is basically what he did before he bounced.

I know about that wishful thinking! :)
zara_zee
Oct. 21st, 2017 06:56 am (UTC)
I too wanted to smack Dean upside the head for most of this episode, but then that last scene almost redeemed him for me. He saw Jack self-harming...trying to kill himself, basically, and totally went into big brother mode...and then had to back himself down and regain his 'i may have to kill this kid' detachment. I think he's scared to hope that Jack can stay 'good' and be an ally and scared to get attached because he's grieving deeply (for Cas and Mary...and remembering everyone else they've lost too) and he doesn't want someone else that (he believes) he'll have to grieve for. I think that ship might have sailed though, no matter what he's trying to tell himself.

Sam was awesome though. And I agree with you on Donatello and Mark P too!
roxymissrose
Oct. 22nd, 2017 12:27 am (UTC)
I think I shocked myself with how angry I was at Dean. That rarely happens! I understand that he's trying to protect himself...I just wish he was more open to Jack, because Dean's acceptance would really help. I hope he gets that, and soon.

Lucifer isn't a favorite character of mine, but Mark plays him with such gusto, it makes it fun to watch him, just as it was with Crowley.

I have a soft spot in my heart for the actor who plays Donatello. He was so perfectly bad on Buffy the Vampire Slayer! :D
tifaching
Oct. 24th, 2017 12:11 am (UTC)
My love for Donatello goes all the way back to The Equalizer, where he played a scruffy CIA type bad ass alongside Edward Woodward. He was a crush of mine back then. ;)
roxymissrose
Oct. 24th, 2017 12:33 am (UTC)
Ooooooo!!!!!
tifaching
Oct. 24th, 2017 12:08 am (UTC)
I'm going to write this before reading the rest of the comments so if it's already been covered, I apologize. Now, I've been mad at Dean. He's done some things that I don't approve of, though I overwhelmingly approve of him. Right now? Sam's right, his wires are crossed. Or that's how I see it. Always, always before, for years, he's had Cas as a source of help above and beyond what he and Sam could accomplish on their own. He's had Crowley. And for a brief time, he had his bad ass mom. Now, they are gone and he and Sam are facing a potentially world destroying big bad all on their own. And God himself laid the responsibility on he and his brother to watch over the world. God himself put that responsibility on him. On top of his John issues with having to save everyone. I think he doesn't want to kill Jack. And he's sure he might have to at the same time. And his speech at the end? It puts any potential violence that Jack might unleash on him and not Sam. And if Jack goes bad it takes the weight off Sam who had hope. My two cents worth, my dear.

Also, I was so glad to see Donatello again. And while new Michael was hot archangelhandling Lucifer, why physical confrontation? I mean, throwing punches? I know the budget and all, but come one, guys!
roxymissrose
Oct. 24th, 2017 12:44 am (UTC)
It puts any potential violence that Jack might unleash on him and not Sam. And if Jack goes bad it takes the weight off Sam who had hope. My two cents worth, my dear.

Yes, I think that as well. Most feel that that's what Dean's comment was all about, at any rate I think it's a very Dean way of thinking, yeah.

And on the whole I approve of him, he was just being really harsh in my book, and I think part of the reason I was mad was the danger of pushing this kid off the edge, and some other reasons I don't really remember right now. *handwave*. But writing this, it occurs to me that probably the *worse* thing Dean can do is pretend to be Jack's friend. In fact showing his distrust might be the best way for Dean to react to the kid. Jack will have to be aware at al times just how dangerous he can be...it'll be so interesting to see this play out. :)

I'm wondering of those AU angels aren't as powerful as the angels on our side of the Crack-o-Doom? They're all togged out in armor, if I'm remembering correctly. Oy, I need to watch that thing again.
tifaching
Oct. 24th, 2017 12:56 am (UTC)
That is an interesting thought. That Jack might work extra hard to prove to Dean (who its apparent he looks up to) that he's not bad.
roxymissrose
Oct. 24th, 2017 01:32 am (UTC)
Ah, the beginning of the season--so fresh, so full of opportunity!! The world's our oyster, and anything is possible! :D
( 29 comments — Leave a comment )

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