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Not rewatched yet, but...

Is 13x02 still under The Cone of Spoiler Silence? Under the cut just in case

I know I see things differently than most folks, and misunderstand a lot--almost as if I was raised by weasels in some deep wood instead of by the perfectly more or less, pretty much, kinda normal folks my parents were. But! As far as Dean actually thinking Mary's dead, I'm not really seeing that. I'm seeing Dean wants to think that Mary is dead, and refuses to accept anything else, not the slightest bit of hope. Because he knows what happened to Sam in Lucifer's hold, and it was horrible, and I'm sure he can't bring himself to imagine his *mom* going through that, bad-ass bitch she may be.

I could be wrong, of course. It could be that Show intends Dean to actually think she is dead, but that's not the Dean that lives in my head, so....

It's season 13, so I intend to blab about any darn thing that pops up in my mind whenever it pops up. Feel free to join in and please feel free to tell me why I'm wrong if you think I am. I'm not that delicate! Well, I am, but what the hey, you can't hear me crying.

:D

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( 34 comments — Leave a comment )
fufaraw
Oct. 22nd, 2017 10:43 pm (UTC)
Hmm, hadn't thought about it that way, but your idea has merit.

Not saying I agree, but it does bear consideration.

Do you need a premptive hanky?
roxymissrose
Oct. 22nd, 2017 10:56 pm (UTC)
*gasp* You made me cry by not agreeing with me totally!!!

:D :D :D

I know that part of me is very much hoping that I've got it right. There's always the fact( well, my opinion, anyway) that this writing duo tends not to understand the characters very much, and are willing to twist them out of shape to fit whatever idea they're writing at the moment. I just think for Dean to be so *adamant* that she's dead trips switches for me.
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zara_zee
Oct. 22nd, 2017 11:20 pm (UTC)
Yep, I agree. He knows Cas is dead because he saw the wings, so he's full out grieving and he's determinedly putting Mary in that same basket, because he just can't cope with hope right now. Like, he just doesn't have the emotional resources to hope she's still alive. And, as you say, if she is, then that brings up a whole different type of horror and fear and worry and just no...total denial is better. And then he does his usual and goes from grief straight to anger, because anger feels more powerful and telling himself that Jack is the problem and he can kill the problem makes him feel like he has some control over the uncontrollable. That's my read anyway. :)
meus_venator
Oct. 22nd, 2017 11:43 pm (UTC)
I'm with you fellers, I must'a bin raised by weasels ma self : ))

I can totally see it as a coping mechanism, I just wish they had a scene where Dean lowers his barriers just a bit and we get a glimpse of the man pain. Right now he's just coming off as an obnoxious asshole and I don't want that. I loved the episode where we watched him lose his memory. Jensen deserves a better script.
One little bit of conflicted emotions in his treatment of Jack, a pause, and rethink of what he was going to say to Sam. Some glimpse of his pain....it would just make it so much better.
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tabaqui
Oct. 22nd, 2017 11:53 pm (UTC)
I think you're right. I think he dosn't want to hope, and he doesn't want to imagine his mom going through what Sam (and he, to a slightly lesser extant), went through. He's just trying to...freeze himself, I think.

*pets him*

Oh, Dean.

Raised by weasels? I would have guessed dingoes. :)
roxymissrose
Oct. 23rd, 2017 02:37 am (UTC)
He's just trying to...freeze himself, I think.

Oh, yes--I think that's a perfect way to put it!


Raised by weasels? I would have guessed dingoes. :)

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! yes.
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supernutjapan
Oct. 23rd, 2017 02:11 am (UTC)
You know what I think, and there is room for plenty of POV! I don't know if we ever find out what the official reason would be, but really, who cares? Sometimes, we have our own character in our heads that just 'would not do that.'
roxymissrose
Oct. 23rd, 2017 02:41 am (UTC)
Absolutely! That's part of the fun of viewing for me, all the different takes on what's happening. We can't know what's in the *writer's* mind, but it's not important to know that. It's what the viewer takes away that makes it interesting, in my view. It's like writing, isn't it, and checking out the readers response to what we've written. :)
rockstarpeach
Oct. 23rd, 2017 04:04 am (UTC)
No, you're not crazy. It's incredibly clear that Dean thinks Mary is alive and just doesn't want to admit it.
roxymissrose
Oct. 23rd, 2017 04:43 am (UTC)
...crazy?

Dude, I just said 'wrong'. Ain't nobody said nothin' 'bout crazy. *side-eyes you*

But really--right? I'd feel just that way in his situation.You know, Dean and I share a lot of characteristics. I'm like a short, fat, senior, Black version of Dean Winchester. *nods* Only I don't have the 'heroic, save folks, put everyone else above me' mentality. If you're with me and you're in trouble, your ass is grass. I will, however, write a nice note of condolence to your next of kin. I bet Dean wouldn't do that. *preens*

okay, this comment went all kinds of places but Sense.
milly_gal
Oct. 23rd, 2017 08:31 am (UTC)
I don't think you're wrong, I think you're spot on. The idea of Mary going through the shit storm Sam did with Lucifer is unthinkable, he would rather she be dead than alive but suffering the same fate. As for Lucifer and Mary's little hell road trip in the alternate dimension, I still can't get a handle on where that's going, other than Micheal perhaps wanting out of this shit hole universe, and so he's going to try and funnel Lucifer's powers somehow.
roxymissrose
Oct. 23rd, 2017 06:43 pm (UTC)
You know, I felt as if Michael wasn't as powerful as the angels in Sam and Dean's side of the universe. I'm not totally sure, because I *still* haven't rewatched it. All my thoughts might change once I do, lol!
madebyme_x
Oct. 23rd, 2017 09:49 am (UTC)
I think you're certainly on to something! It feels, to me anyway, that maybe Dean can't afford the hope and disappointment of thinking Mary's alive, so in his head, he's accepted the worse case scenario, but maybe there's some sort of deep hidden unspoken hope there. I love thinky thoughts, so thank you for sharing!
roxymissrose
Oct. 23rd, 2017 06:29 pm (UTC)
but maybe there's some sort of deep hidden unspoken hope there

I definitely think so! I think it's SOP for Dean.

You'll find that my thinky thoughts can wander to some weird places. ;D
wind_storms
Oct. 23rd, 2017 01:25 pm (UTC)
I don't get all the Dean hate. Dabb, some of the writers, Jensen, and Jared have all said that Dean thinks Mary is dead at the start of the season. So I don't really understand why people are hating on him.

I think if Dean did think Mary were alive he'd stop at nothing to find a way to get to her/get her back, and the writers weren't interested in going that direction just yet, so they've opted for this.
roxymissrose
Oct. 23rd, 2017 06:23 pm (UTC)
Oh, is there actual Dean hate going on? I don't like that idea. Sure, I wanted to punch Dean in the face last Thursday, but there are days when my Beloved gets on my nerves so bad, I want to punch him in the face. It's no surprise to him, he knows he married a cranky little woman. :)

I'm not angry because of Mary, I totally get that. I was angry because of the way I perceived Dean's behavior towards Jack. It was more intolerant than he's been lately, but I get too that it's driven by grief, and loss, and fear. What I don't get is how anyone could be angry with Dean's reaction to Mary's disappearance. How was he supposed to act?


I think if Dean did think Mary were alive he'd stop at nothing to find a way to get to her/get her back, and the writers weren't interested in going that direction just yet, so they've opted for this.

Yes, of course, that makes sense as well. We (meaning me) forget frequently that there are creative reasons why things are happening!
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tasabian
Oct. 23rd, 2017 07:56 pm (UTC)
As far as Dean actually thinking Mary's dead, I'm not really seeing that. I'm seeing Dean wants to think that Mary is dead, and refuses to accept anything else, not the slightest bit of hope. Because he knows what happened to Sam in Lucifer's hold, and it was horrible, and I'm sure he can't bring himself to imagine his *mom* going through that, bad-ass bitch she may be.
Oh! that's an interesting theory - I'd sorta accepted what he's been saying at face value, but Dean runs deeper than that. Totallty makes sense that he would rather decide Mary's dead than be forced to imagine what she might be enduring.

Gonna make for a wonderful reunion when Mary comes back, hopefully having kicked Lucifer's ass! *optimist* (Bucket of tears from me, no doubt.)
roxymissrose
Oct. 23rd, 2017 08:01 pm (UTC)
I hope so much that Mary takes Lucifer out, or makes him suffer in some horrible way! :D

I think this is one of the better comebacks Show has had. I've enjoyed these last two eps!
( 34 comments — Leave a comment )

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